The Girl That Quit Her PhD | Karen Parada

Today I interview Karen Parada, a STEM-influencer and scientist who abruptly left her PhD program earlier this year.

We talk about her decision to leave grad school, her new career, and advice that she has for current grad students and undergrads considering grad school.

Links to everything mentioned in the show

Karen on Instagram
https://www.instagram.com/karenpiranha

Karen on TikTok
https://www.tiktok.com/@karenspinklabcoat

Spooky Sticker Pack
https://gradschoolsucks.myshopify.com/products/spooky-sticker-pack-for-grad-students

Six Week Checklist
https://www.gradschoolsucks.com/sixweekchecklist 

INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPT

Matt: Hey folks, and welcome to the grad school sucks podcast. The show for grad students and academics who want to learn about non academic career paths and how to start their transition into that non academic career path. Today, I have a very exciting interview for you. I am interviewing. Karen Parada, self proclaimed first gen Latina in STEM. 

Matt: She got famous for her pink lab coat, and then she decided to quit her PhD. So we are diving in today. We will be covering why she decided to quit her doctoral program, what she's up to now professionally, and what her new advice is for grad students as well as undergrads who are thinking about going to grad school. 

Matt: I know this is a long sought after episode, and I'm glad to finally release it to you today. So without further ado, let's get to the interview. Karen Perata, thank you so much for joining me. I'm so excited to talk with you today.  

Karen: Hey everyone. Thanks for having me. I really appreciate it. And I've been following your page for quite some time now, so it's really nice to be on the other end of this. 

Karen: I'm Karen, and I'm a first gen Latina in STEM, originally from the Bay Area in California. And I'm, I guess I'm most famously known for my pink lab coat, but I am now also most famously known for the girl that quit her PhD. It's been a crazy couple of months, but it's been a long... Two years, and now I am actually a clinical research coordinator and recruitment specialist for the Latino and Hispanic community at my new job, and I work with ALS patients and those with neuromuscular  

Matt: diseases. 

Matt: That is awesome. And you are most active on Instagram and TikTok. Is that correct? Yes. 

Karen: TikTok not so much because I've gotten a little bit of a stage fright since quitting my PhD, but I'd say Instagram and TikTok are my  

Matt: two top ones. Okay. Well, for the few people who don't already follow you, I'll have links in the description so they can click and go see your stuff. 

Matt: So let's, let's start with the job you have now. What does a job like that entail?  

Karen: Well, first I'd like to start off with saying that I did not know this job or career path. existed. The only STEM jobs I've really known were the traditional, like, academia or, like, biotech routes. Never did clinical research ever occur to me. 

Karen: Just because what I had learned in some of my public health classes, the history that comes with clinical research, a little bit problematic sometimes, or at least it has been in its origins, but I never thought I would have done this, and I kind of just came across a point in my life where I wanted something other than being in the lab because at that point Being in the lab I could do with my eyes closed hogtied in the dark It was fine But I wanted something new where I could utilize my current skill set and then build on that even more in Maybe a different health setting so clinical research coordinator is pretty much the backbone of clinical research there You're on the ground people who um are professional researchers and really do all of the nitty gritty scheduling and patient interaction, um, associated with clinical trials, both observational and interventional where there's some kind of experimental drug being offered. 

Karen: So I'm kind of the backbone on the ground person that gets to interact with patients on the daily, ensure that the. not experiments, but the tests that we're conducting with our patients in order to obtain the data is being done well. It's accurate. We're doing good clinical research practice. And yeah, that's kind of in a nutshell. 

Karen: I'm also a recruitment specialist and I get to recruit people, which is really great because I get to talk to people about science and their interest in participation in clinical research. So I get to do that. And I also get to do a little bit of education. Primarily I was hired. Because my employer realized that they didn't have a really high Hispanic and Latino participation in our clinical research trials, even though the demographics in the area are really high in those two. 

Karen: And as a native Spanish speaker who is at that level in the science world, it was kind of a perfect match. So I get to engage with that community in that sense, which has always been one of my end goals for me. So I get to do that as well.  

Matt: That's so awesome. Yeah, it's so awesome. And you know, I've, I've followed your story for six months to a year, maybe, maybe longer. 

Matt: I don't know. And it's so cool to see where you are in this position, but let's, let's maybe zoom out a little bit for those who don't know what got you initially interested in looking for a position like this or really any position in general. Yeah,  

Karen: so I have a bachelor's and I have a master's, both of which were biology, public health, molecular, bio related. 

Karen: I would say more lab intense than anything else. And when I pursued my PhD, I kind of went that same route. When I realized I didn't want to pursue that anymore, I had looked into positions that would allow me to be in the lab still, but I realized that The ceiling that I would hit with just masters was pretty quickly. 

Karen: And I was just burnt out from being in the lab. And I knew that I wanted to see the work that I can do be more impactful in real life, like more tangible, something I could see besides just like growing stuff in a Petri dish, which I find really fun and interesting, but I realized that people in labs are. 

Karen: Very much doing a very specific thing and it doesn't really go beyond that. And I wanted something that would go the extra mile. And when I looked, I was mainly looking at public health jobs cause I do have a really strong public health background. And this job just kind of so happenedly so happenedly popped up and it was kind of recommended to me. 

Karen: I had chatted with a couple of people and. There were pretty positive reviews on being a clinical research coordinator in that it was really rewarding, still a lot of work, but people who were in that definitely used it as a stepping stone to maybe go back into grad school, go to med school, or just directly go into the clinical research route, and it just sounded a lot different. 

Karen: And that's kind of why I went for it and I didn't want to be without a job for too long. And I knew that just, you know, sitting at home. Wouldn't get me back into something more positive. So kind of just went for  

Matt: it. Absolutely. Yeah, so that's interesting What do you think were some of the things that really set you up? 

Matt: Well to be a great candidate for the position,  

Karen: so I would say having a really strong Foundation in you know biology and just knowing how research works in general I can say very confidently that all of the skills that I used in the lab I use in In my job, just in like different ways, like a septic technique definitely applies to working with patients taking good and accurate notes in your lab notebook definitely applies to the data that I collect in clinical research, being able to manage multiple projects at once, definitely do that here as well. 

Karen: So I think just having a really heavy laboratory experience. Definitely set me up, um, for success in this job. There's obviously a lot of new stuff that I've learned, but it hasn't, it's been like really nice and I feel very competent in my job, which is great.  

Matt: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's great. I love that feeling. 

Matt: And so I'm curious and we can go into it as, in as much detail as you want or as little detail as you want. But so you were in a doctoral program, correct? What how how far along did you get? I  

Karen: made it to I made it through three full semesters and Began a fourth semester and was in that fourth semester for about two weeks before I decided it was  

Matt: time to go Okay, and what ultimately led to you making that decision? 

Karen: What happened is the number one question I get, and I, I don't even know if I know still, but I will start off with saying that I realized four months into my PhD program that it was not a good fit, and it took me An entire year to finally come to the ultimate decision of leaving and it was not easy. 

Karen: And I think the most non problematic answer was that it just wasn't a good fit. It's like the nicest way I can say it. And although I'm really grateful for such a great, I wouldn't say great. There's such a privilege experience of being able to do research and get skills and get paid for it, even if it wasn't enough, I think I'm so grateful for the experience at the end of the day. 

Karen: Cause the year before I cried to be where I like, I would have sold my soul to be where I was. And I don't. I think anyone noticed, I kind of like mentioned it, but when I originally applied to PhD programs, I got rejected from every single program I applied to. So when this door opened up of being in the program that I ended up in, I did not waste it. 

Karen: I definitely took advantage of it. I did my best to make it work. I guess what happened was, is that it just wasn't a good fit? Like the nice answer? Yeah. When I was in the middle of everything, I almost gaslit myself. Like, oh, it's not that bad. Like it's fine. I, and I think part of that was because. You know, I, for my undergrad and my master's, I went to, you know, a small, a not R1 institution. 

Karen: It was a state school. It was super diverse. And what I've been told is like a smaller pond. And I had a really positive experience. It was not easy. There are definitely times where I cried or I felt overwhelmed or that I couldn't do it, but never did I once get. Any kind of like treatment that made it harder than it already needed to be. 

Karen: And it was just, I mean, it wasn't perfect, but I would say overall, it was a positive experience surrounded by people that genuinely wanted to educate and train the next generation of professionals, scientists, what have you. So going from a super positive experience to what I went to was shocking in the sense that like, I almost didn't even believe it. 

Karen: And I found every reason under the sun to justify, like, why I was the one that, like, wasn't cut out for it, or that something was wrong with me. And it took, it took a while to, like, realize that although the program itself had good intentions and was definitely doing the best that they could with the available funding and resources that it had available, that it just was not... 

Karen: A good place to be for the kind of career and skillset that I wanted to get out of it. And at the end of the day, I'd like to say that someone I can put up with a lot, I can work long hours. I can do all of that, mostly in part because I really care about what I do and I'm passionate and it's easy to, it's easier to do those things when there's a lot of motivation behind it and when you love what you do, but the training I was getting in return for what I was putting in just did not. 

Karen: The math was not mapping on it, and it just, it wasn't worth it. There was nothing more that I could get out of that program that I had gotten in that year and a half, and it was taking more of me than giving me anything else. And it was, it was really hard, and I think it's hard for, you know, people that are in academia and kind of like have this idea of what it's supposed to be like. 

Karen: They have either good experiences and they can't imagine anything else or they have really bad experiences and they want to do something to change it and they realize that it's just something that isn't going to change and it's a really big slap in the face for someone who's like super passionate about what they do. 

Karen: I think it's really hard and really sad that it's like this cycle that I don't think is ever going to end. And you end up losing amazing researchers like ourselves from the system. And then it's really hard.  

Matt: The ex therapist in me is, is a little curious about something. When I think about my own journey, I knew something wasn't going to be a good fit for me, that job. 

Matt: And ultimately I said. I should be grateful. It's going to pay the bills. Maybe it'll be better than I think. And I basically just put my head down and gutted through it until I couldn't take it any longer. And it seems like that's probably not the right way to make that kind of a decision. Like looking back on my own life. 

Matt: So for you, was there like a realization or a conversation or was there some kind of like Impetus that, that kind of led to thinking about what your other options might be.  

Karen: Yeah, I think similar to you, I definitely spent a portion of time putting my head down to the point where I wouldn't speak. Like I was pretty quiet towards the end of it. 

Karen: You didn't really hear me talk that much. And if anyone knows me, they know that. I'm not the type to stay quiet and definitely very outspoken. So for me to go from being normal, super gung ho to quiet is... And was like very concerning for some of the people that were close to me and watched me and I you know had kind of gotten to this point where I was just operating on rage and spite and When I put my mind to something it gets done. 

Karen: I've only ever quit like maybe two other things in my life. So for me, it was kind of just like a, no, I want to do this and I'm capable and smart enough to be the researcher and scientist that I want to be over my dead body. Is anything getting in my way? I'm not going to let, you know, A system that is unhappy and broken, get in the way of me being able to do what I want to do. 

Karen: Cause that has nothing to do with me. And it was just, it was, it was too heavy. It was too much. There was nothing more that I can do because I wasn't even myself at that point. And it, I had this really vivid dream one night and I like woke up crying and I've like kind of opened this, opened up about this like other people, but you know, in the dream, this was like towards December before I left. 

Karen: It was kind of just like, Arguing with myself in the dream about how like no over my dead body. No one's getting in the way I like look down in the dream to see that it was my dead body and I kind of just realized that My happiness wasn't worth All of this, like it wasn't worth it. And I kind of just came to the conclusion that I could do the same things that I want to do in a different setting, maybe without the title in a place that's much better for me. 

Karen: And it wasn't easy. It was definitely very stubborn. It took a lot of talking. I mean, it took me almost a year to come to that decision. Um, but that's kind of. What had happened and I started making lists and trying to see if it was really worth it and trying to see what else was out there. And I realized that there are a lot of people without doctorates that get to do what they want to do. 

Karen: Maybe, you know, they're not publicized as much or they don't have that title, but at the end of the day they seemed to be in a much better place. And I think that was more important for me at the time.  

Matt: Hey, folks, I wanted to interrupt my conversation with Karen for less than a minute to let you know that fall is here, and along with fall comes spooky season, and what better way to celebrate surviving the mid semester slump in your fall semester with colorful and durable spooky themed stickers and bells? 

Matt: made specifically for grad students. These are perfect for your water bottle and laptop, and they feature images of ghosts and ghouls, witches and skulls, along with phrases like reviewer two is coming for you. How weird my coauthors have disappeared. And of course. Publisher Parish. I'm selling these sticker packs for just seven dollars. 

Matt: Seven dollars for seven stickers. Grab your pack today before they run out. You can click the link in the episode description in order to find them. And without further ado, let's get back to the episode. So for grad students who do want to, let's say, go into, they're in a master's and they're going to a PhD program, what are some things they should be looking for? 

Matt: Whether it's like something to attract them or maybe some red flags that they should be looking out for. That  

Karen: is a great question. And I will say that I think across the board, number one, where you go makes a really big difference on the kind of experience that you have, not only where, but who your advisor is. 

Karen: And that's something that was repeated to me a lot while I was applying, but I didn't really understand because I had such a positive experience. Yeah. Master's advisor experience. I couldn't imagine anything more. It didn't make sense in my mind that someone who went into academia to teach and do research and take on these students would ever want to give anything less than a positive experience outside of, you know, failed experiments. 

Karen: But I'd say definitely Looking at where you want to live can make a really big difference. You know, we live in a very interesting time in terms of politics. So there may be states that people don't want to live in. I definitely made a list of states that I was not willing to live in for multiple reasons. 

Karen: So I'd say number one. Number two would be the type of school. Wouldn't say to Pay attention to the prestige that a school's name has, because it all comes down to money, not only of the school, but whatever department you're in, some departments get more funding from their universities and others, and that directly impacts you. 

Karen: A graduate student because that that money means that's the amount of money that's available to them in terms of resources and whatnot. So it's a look at the school program, how much funding they have. And I would say, you know, website is a pretty good place to start by looking, you know, you can see. The demographics of the faculty that they have, if they, you know, have any stats on like where their students have gone after grad school, that's really great. 

Karen: If you have a lot of students that have successfully made it into places, you know, after their dissertation, that's a really good indicator that that program is setting their students up for success. And not trapping this in this wheel of students because they can do the grunt work for us. And they're going to be here for seven years. 

Karen: They're probably going to quit and we get what they need out of them. I'd say that's. It's a pretty good place to start. Another one would be just to make sure that you have at least three different people in that department that have areas of research that aligns with your interests. There's only one person, been there, done that. 

Karen: It's not that it's gonna suck, it's just gonna be really hard for you to get. The expertise that you need to, you need support from other faculty. And if those people aren't there, you're not going to get it. And it's just going to be that much harder. I would say you can tell pretty quickly if a department or a program is unorganized and in, you know, some kind of disarray. 

Karen: I, for example, was told right from the get go that my department was undergoing a lot of changes and that they were working really hard to turn a new leaf. While I can say that there's definitely a lot of efforts being made, the challenges that they were going through directly impacted what I had available and I think made it for a much harder graduate experience than it needed to So definitely looking at where the department is at. 

Karen: I would say those are the main ones and, you know, if you make it to the interview process, and if you're talking to grad students or faculty, and they seem bitter or not happy, I mean, you're not going to see anybody be super, super perky, right? Grad school's hard, being a faculty member is emotionally, physically, and mentally draining, but if There's like a weird vibe going on. 

Karen: It's for a reason and I would say even the most secure people Can only put up with so much based off of what their surroundings are and that you know directly Directly impacts student success for sure. Yeah.  

Matt: Yeah a hundred percent. So one of the things that I know You, you like to talk about is diversity being a Latina in STEM and something that we talked about a little bit before the call was the idea of performative DEI or diversity, equity and inclusion versus real DEI. 

Matt: How do you see those two things as different? How does that play into academia as a whole? Any thoughts on that?  

Karen: Yeah. I mean, I think across the board right now, there is this. It's DEI initiative, which I think is really great. But there are definitely programs in schools that are actively recruiting specific types of students to give them the numbers that they need. 

Karen: But aren't actually going, you know, beyond that to support those students. For example, I, you know, don't have the luxury of paying, you know, 50, 000 for school every year, and there are certain grants that I don't qualify for because I already have a master's. So to a program, I am someone that definitely requires a lot more funding. 

Karen: And. I do check that box, and I think that's great, and I was recruited, not because I was a Latina, but, you know, it definitely, it added to the mix, and I do think that programs that have no intention of offering some kind of a safety net for those students aren't actually supporting the students that they're actively seeking to recruit. 

Karen: So funding is a really big one, as, you know, as a first gen student who doesn't come from a very wealthy background, if there's no money coming in, or If there's like a scarcity of it, I personally can't function very well. And it impacts my performance and being recruited and accepted into a program that didn't have a funding plan for X amount of years was a really big player into me quitting. 

Karen: And I do think that, you know, there are schools that. You know, we'll have that funding available for those students versus those that just recruit them and don't actually have a plan for retention purposes. And, you know, I think there are departments or programs that are recognizing that they're lacking in the diversity setting and are actively not only recruiting, but having very intentional conversations that results to direct change in their department. 

Karen: And I think. That's what really distinguishes those programs on like, let me just recruit versus let me recruit and do something about it and change and evolve as a program over time. I've been at two R1s now. The R1 that I was before was definitely very performative. They were more concerned with looking like they, you know, had those numbers weren't necessarily doing anything. 

Karen: Intentional about changing or making a more supportive environment. Why? Probably because they didn't have the resources to do it. But now I'm at R1 that recognizes all of the same things. And they're actively having conversations, looking for funding to fund those changes that they want. And it's just a huge difference. 

Karen: And, you know, helps me a lot and just helps everybody. Science is more... I think productive when you have a diverse group of people, whether it be age, you know, race, backgrounds, educational levels, socioeconomic, like all  

Matt: of that stuff. A hundred percent. What do you see down the road professionally for Karen? 

Matt: Down  

Karen: the road, I definitely want to rebuild some of my I Don't really have any more kind of work through the identity crisis that I'm currently dealing with. Cause I've always been in the lab and now I'm not, and I have 90, 000 people watching now. So it makes it a little bit harder aside from like personal growth and mental health. 

Karen: I definitely do want to go back to school. When and only if I find a program where it, like, makes sense. I don't think I'm going to go back to the molecular type of work that I was doing. Mainly because of the experience I've had in my job and being able to see the other more, at least for me, more impactful side of research. 

Karen: So I think maybe a public health degree of some kind after this would be really nice. And my dream was always to be an interdisciplinary scientist that had, you know, some of that medical, some of that environmental, and some of that like educational type. expertise and being able to do and lead some kind of initiative where all three, because science isn't only one subject, it's an, it's an intersection of a bunch of different ones. 

Karen: And I really like that collaborative intersectional type research. So that, that for me would be really awesome and I've gotten the degrees that I've gotten on purpose because I knew I needed to check off certain boxes to get that expertise. And I think I'm there, and I think I just need to keep working and hopefully get back into that  

Matt: somehow. 

Matt: Awesome. Alright, well, final few questions for you, Karen. For the folks out there who, let's say they're feeling burnt out and they're having to make a tough decision about whether to continue on with their time in grad school or maybe their academic career or do something else. Thank What would you suggest they do to look into that burnout and decide what to do next? 

Karen: Well, first, I feel like any feelings regarding burnout are totally real and super valid. Don't gaslight yourself. If you're tired, it's for a reason and you need to listen to your body. I would say, if your school does, you know, have some kind of mental health services, Definitely take advantage of those talking through your problems and not carrying it around or talking through whatever Definitely helps, you know ease that weight off your shoulders and might make you feel less burnt out I'd say the other thing would maybe be something that I did was to create a list of the things that were specifically Weighing down on you and of that list What are things that are in your control that you can maybe make changes and what are things that? 

Karen: Are out of your control and out of that list of things that you can't change is to really think about, you know, what aligns with your values and needs and seeing if putting up with whatever is on that change of or whatever is on that list of non changeable items. Is that something that you can live with for the next? 

Karen: X amount of years. And I think just maybe going back to why it is you decided to do it in the first place and really sitting down with yourself and going through whether or not you're feeling satisfied or you're feel like this is, you know, what you still want, or if you're just continuing because you know, you're stubborn or because you want the title. 

Karen: And if, you know, at the end of the day. It comes to the conclusion that it's just not for you. I think that's okay. And walking away from something does take a lot of courage. And if you decide that putting up with for whatever, whatever it is for three or more years, and you can do it, I'm here to applaud whoever along the way. 

Karen: That's what I would do.  

Matt: All right, 100%. All right, Karen, folks, if you don't already follow Karen, definitely follow her on Instagram and then maybe TikTok. I'll have links to both of those below. And Karen, final question for you. What do you think all grad students should consider doing before they graduate? 

Matt: Could be something fun, could be something serious.  

Karen: I'd say go to that place that you've always wanted to go to and... Save up for whatever trip the world and grad school seems very small and it's actually a lot bigger than you think it is. And it's just really nice to get out there into a different setting to really put things into perspective as to why you're here and why you're doing what you're doing and why it means so much to you. 

Karen: It's important.  

Matt: Awesome. Thank you so much for chatting with me. Yeah. Thank you. All right, folks, you've done it again. You've wasted another perfectly good half hour of writing time listening to the grad school sucks podcast. And I hope you got a lot out of my conversation with Karen today. I really enjoyed getting to talk to her and learning more about her journey. 

Matt: Don't forget to follow her on Instagram and Tik TOK. If you don't already, those links are in the description of this episode. Don't forget to grab a. Grad School Sucks themed spooky sticker pack, if you're into that kind of thing. 7 for 7 stickers. Available for a limited time only. And, if you are a grad student and you know that you are either ready to get out now, Or, you know that you don't want to have an academic career after you finish grad school, consider downloading my six week checklist. 

Matt: It shows you the exact steps that you need to take in order to prepare yourself for a career in industry. You just have to get that first job. And sometimes that first job can be a lot of work, but this simplifies it, clarifies it and shows you exactly what to do. Check the description of this episode for a link to that as well. 

Matt: Anyway, that's all for my show today. I will see you all next week. Have a good one.