Choosing Happiness with Research Goes Slowly (Raúl Peña, PhD)

In this episode, I interview Senior Lab Manager Dr. Raúl Peña.

We discuss his career as an academic scientist as well as his popular social media account Research Goes Slowly.

Check out Research Goes Slowly on Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/research_goes_slowly/ 

Listen to the episode on Apple podcasts:
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/grad-school-sucks/id1647212731?i=1000627705799 

Listen to the episode on Spotify:
https://open.spotify.com/episode/2nPYGKTZXW14MVcrcy9PcO?si=03b686517b1d4f81 

Watch the episode on YouTube:
https://youtu.be/7kA2dhE-pt4 

INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPT

Matt: Dr. Raul Pina, welcome to the podcast. You are senior lab manager at the Hospital del Mar in Spain and folks at home will know him from his Instagram channel, Research Goes Slowly, was there anything that you wanted to add to my introduction so the folks at home can know a little bit more about you?  

Raul: I work as a lab manager. I work also as a scientist. I have my own research line working on Kaposi's sarcoma, on cancer. 

Raul: Currently analyzing the role of tumor microenvironment in this tumor that is not a pretty good to understand. Okay, and then we are in close relation with doctors at the hospital and we make basic research at the end. We are just analyzing, Kaposi's sarcoma is induced by a viral infection and then this viral infection promotes overgrowth of endothelial cells or lymphatic cells and then we are analyzing How these cells also are entering into a mesenchymal program and how these cells ate with other cells in the normal skill to activate and to promote tumor growth or to block tumor growth. 

Raul: And we are, this is what we do in the lab, mainly in different cancer types and sometimes focuses more in metastasis that in the promotion of growth, but in general, what we do in the lab with these several tumor  

Matt: models. That's awesome. What got you into cancer research?  

Raul: I think everybody has a complex history, but , I do my PhD in nuclear to CDO plasmic to nuclear, to thedo plasmas transport. 

Raul: Okay. In a University of Pi spo in the, in the north of Spain. And then I moved to Barcelona and then I started a postdoc in development. I always loved development. Since I have studied. My bachelors, I love development, how one cell can switch the program totally and can differentiate in skin or in an eye or in a neuron. 

Raul: I love that part. And then I stay there in that postdoc here also in Barcelona for a couple of years. And I have to say that we work a lot, we produce a lot. But then arrives a moment in which I don't see myself doing that, that hard work for the rest of my life. I think that 

Raul: is a crisis that everybody has in research, that moment I, I just quit that postdoc work. I be honest and go one day to my boss and say, Melissa, sorry, but I don't see myself working on this 10 years later. Because it's time consuming work. During the weekend, I have to think about the experiments have to read, and then I need my time to be relaxing. 

Raul: And then at that moment, a friend of me that was working, , in a lab close to mine in there in my postdoc institution. Send me the offer from here, from Antonio, from my boss, , from Hospital del Mar. And she said, Oh yeah, Raul, maybe this offer fits to you because Tony is like having a big lab and then he, he doesn't want to be in charge of this part of organization of the lab, , management of the orders of the contracts, or he wants just focus on the research and the project and the money and that's it. 

Raul: And that other stuff related with the research. And I say, okay, and then he's looking for a doctor, , old guy, a little bit old guy that with a basic sense, what is happening in the business to manage this part of the, of the lab. And I say, okay, I will try. And then he hired me. And I have been here from 2007, so I have been almost 20 years. 

Raul: Yeah. A lot of years. And then here, studied cancer. So I entered directly in the cancer without knowing anything about cancer. And then, , during the lab meetings, the people explained the cancer projects, the topics, and I, I have start to read about it and then learn a little bit about it. Mm-hmm. . I think it's time. 

Raul: Learning is time at the end. For  

Matt: sure. Yeah. Yeah, and that's awesome that you found out about the job through, through a friend, like through your professional network.  

Raul: I would say that it's pretty usual in science, no? It's, , colleagues recommend you to another lab. And then that lab trusts in your colleagues, and then you have, like, , networking. 

Raul: At the end, it's networking. He had worked, , many times in this, in this sense.  

Matt: Yeah. Yeah, so I know you mentioned the lab has gotten smaller over the years, but it used to be pretty big What is it like to lead a really big lab? 

Raul: I mean, depends. I have been, my lab, when I started it has like 18 to 20, 22 people and then without the bosses because we have three different bosses at that time with different B. I. s You know, supervisors And then I, my love is, continues with more or less that people are more or less maybe 10 years. And then I have to say that the difficult part is that it's having everybody happy. 

Raul: When we are a big love, but everybody was happy, nobody was fighting to any other love mate. Sure. Everything is fine. Everything is happy and any problem can be solved with any problem, with any delight and any problem and with any suffering to anybody, you know? But also I have been during a long time with times with, , some part of the lab don't fit with other part of the lab. 

Raul: And then you create like, I will not say secta, ghettos or whatever you can call it. And that parts are difficult to handle because it's part as you can feel that you prefer the other part and then you favor the other part sometimes. And then the stupid things that who use a centrifuge, who let this broken thing, who let these things in the lab creates. 

Raul: Situations that can be solved in 

Raul: seconds, but as the level polarised, create like a ball, a ball, a ball, and then you get what's happening here, you know? , also have a big laugh, has many issues, at least in Spain, I would say everywhere, but at least in Spain, with bureaucracy. You have to solve many bureaucracies. Contracts, with orders. 

Raul: With project management, with, , justification of the projects, , and then we have, I have to, , do a lot of work on this. And this work is, was done half by the supervisor, half for me, depending which type of, and then you have to spend a lot of time on this. And I think that the good idea with Big Lab is establish rules. 

Raul: That everybody feels that they own rules and then the lab manager or the technicians being charged that the rules should be followed for everybody. But I think that the best situation is when you and I did several times, say, along that years. This just creates meetings just to discuss the rules and the organization. 

Raul: And let everybody say whatever they feel could be improved. And then, any idea from any student, any postdoc, any boss, any supervisor. I think that should be implemented just in case that the idea is better than the system that you are using at that moment. Because maybe even the most new student can solve or can tune any process in a simplistic way and everything is happy. 

Raul: And I think it's the best. And also we handle many times with lack of funding and everywhere you have, you have ideas with many funding and ideas with few funding. And when we enter in process in, in, in times with few funding, I always say the same to the boss. , let's do a couple of meetings just to explain economy to people, lab economy, research economy to people, to allow people to know how expensive it is. 

Raul: Hope we have to rationalize, rationalize the, the, the expense of the lab. Mm-hmm. hope we can to prioritize, prioritize some experiments but do not order that are quite expensive and how we handle this few money to all these big labs. And when the people is involved in this process, I think that everything goes fine. 

Raul: The problem is when you go as land manager, new land manager, all land manager say, and guy comes and say, okay, you have to do that. Because we work in this manner and we are not flexible at all and then doesn't work. Nothing works. So it's like with new people you say, okay, we try to do that in this manner. 

Raul: Try to adapt to that. If not, probably you came with your own ideas from, from baccalaureate, from other labs and maybe you say, okay, but in my other life we do that in a slightly different manner and it work better and they say, okay, why don't try? And then the people is involved in that. It's just to create a happy environment to people. 

Raul: So stressful is research by themselves to also stress with rules, with orders, with laws in the lab. So I try to avoid that part and I, I used to be so flexible at all. Don't want to be scolding people or mm-hmm. getting, checking people if they do that or they don't know that, it's like, create a fun environment. 

Raul: Everybody's happy and at the end everything works. More of the time, that's it. Not necessarily more.  

Matt: Yeah, that's awesome. , just one second. I'll be right back. Don't worry. 

Matt: Sorry, something was making noise over there. , so you've been in, , the research world for a number of years. Have you ever considered going to industry, working for like a company as a scientist? Or do you like, you like being... Where you are in the more academic side of things.  

Raul: In fact, I love academia. 

Raul: In general. Despite all the things that are negative to that, and I agree to all the things, toxic environment, lack of funding, few salaries, but I love academia. I think that that freedom that promotes academia, for me promotes creativity. And this freedom to choose what to do every day by myself, in general. 

Raul: Depending on the lab, I have to say that it depends a lot on the academic lab that you are. But at least in the lab I have been, I have been really free to do whatever I want. And then, for me, this freedom has no value. Also, in Spain, at the time I was, , PhD, new PhD, I had finished my, my thesis, we haven't too many possibilities to go to real industry positions. 

Raul: And then I also never get out of Spain, always make my research in Spain. So at that time was so difficult. And then I started in that, in here, in Hospital Del Mar, and really enjoyed my work and love my work. I mean, it's, I never thought seriously to move into private companies. I mean, they have some advantages, I mean, in terms of salaries, in terms of that you're They respect your time schedule and they respect that you can do whatever you want with your time. 

Raul: And in academia you are always working on your experiment, thinking about your experiment. Hanging out with researchers and everything is like, you know, all together, you know. But in fact I'm happy. I'm happy. Maybe probably because the core of my ideas have been like manager. And the technicians don't have that stress. 

Raul: that researchers has and it's totally different. The work of the, of technician is little bit more relaxed. So, but I'm fine where I am. Really? Yeah. I, I will just need more money to my lab . Sure, sure. To, to really decide and don't get any reaction on any kind experiment I can plan. Yeah. 'cause science itself is so, so expensive. 

Matt: Yeah. Since you've been lab manager, what have been maybe like some highlights or some achievements or discoveries that have come out of your lab?  

Raul: Well, my lab, my boss, my actual boss, , describe it, , key seminar paper in, in epithelial to mesenchymal transition. , he discovered what a PhD student of him. 

Raul: , bullies us in 2000s that is nail one protein can be insidiously to be covering repressor to be covering promoters and repress the covering. And after that, , epithelial 

Raul: cells can transform it into mesenchymal mesenchymal cells that promotes, , again of some traits within the cells. Most of them related to mobility. Okay, so it's the manner in which most of the tissues during development, , most of the cells that are stuck in an epithelial layer can get out of this epithelial layer and move around and establish a new set of population of this epithelial layer. 

Raul: Okay. And then after that, they realize. Although probably now it's under discussion, under discussion from many time ago, that this process, epithelial to mesenchymal transition, is highly related to metastasis in cancer. It's assumed in general that, , epithelial cancer cells that want to go under metastasis and establish in another organ have to transformate, , partially or briefly or whatever we can define because this is depending on the supervisor will tell a different story. 

Raul: But these epithelial cells need to transformate in mesenchymal mobile cell. To go around the bloodstream or the lymphatic canals and establish in another organ and then turn back into epithelial cells. And the first step of this is transfer of this EMT. And then, there are many theories. If a snail 1 2, slam, step 1, step 2, there are many proteins that at the end work in similar manner as a snail. 

Raul: And probably the truth is that nobody rules, I mean, for each different subtype of cancer or each different cancer type, one of these proteins will rule. And even probably, maybe, who knows, any kind of epithelial cells without changing too much can move around as epithelial cells with a few traits of mesenchymal cells and move and establish over there. 

Raul: So then... What at the very beginning was a process related to development, transformed into a process related to cancer, and then this process gained a lot of notoriety, funding, and then many people are trying to block this process to avoid metastasis. It's like the... Theoretically, you could block this first step within a cancer cell. 

Raul: And a cancer within a tumor, you probably will not have ever any kind of metastasis. And the point is that metastasis is the leading case of death in any cancer type. Everybody that, in general, dies due to metastasis within other organs. Because when you have primary tumors and different organs with metastasis, you have a systemic failure at the end, and then people die about that. 

Raul: So this is the key discovery of my boss that is really, really new now in the, in the field. In fact, , we work on that protein, that process now, because after that was discovered that snail is also important in mesenchymal cells to be activated, to collaborate with cancer cells. To collaborate to healing, to collaborate to promote fibrosis, illness, and at the end it's an important protein related to disease, you know. 

Raul: And we started this process in general. Yes, to block them, analyze them. But we do in a basic research perspective. We don't do really, , applied research. 

Raul: We do the wars in which tumor is important or not. And that, that is what we do in the lab. That's  

Matt: awesome. So, I want to change directions a little bit. When did you start making content on Instagram?  

Raul: Okay, I... I will need to check, but many time ago. Many time ago. And then, ... We have, we'll have to analyze my account. 

Raul: I will have to say that we have like three different faces. Okay? I am, since youth, , amateur photographer. And I have been working as professional photographer for several years also. And then the first time of my account was show my photography. In a creative point of view. Because in that moment when... 

Raul: I joined to Instagram, was so popular the use and apply blurring and 

Raul: transitions and whatever to images and I started with that one. And then I had to say that nobody cares about my photography. So it was so, well, I enjoy a lot publishing photos, but nobody, posting photos, images, but nobody cares about that and this is real. And then, , after several years, I, well, establish a family, kids, whatever, you know, and then I hadn't time to, , to take my own pictures. 

Raul: And then I, I think, why, why don't to post what we are doing in the lab images, also picture, also shooting in the lab with my phone and then, , showing that to the world. And I started with that. And then, , I started to post results and long captions explaining which experiment we are doing, when we publish papers, when we, , , make a group picture of the, of the, of the lab. 

Raul: And then it was not bad in engagement at that point. Okay. I mean, I think that in general. People and labs doing that don't get millions of followers, doesn't get also thousands of followers, but not bad. It was like a typical lab showing that they were doing, you know, and then I was happy with that. And then Instagram. 

Raul: Creates that kind of content that is called Reels that everybody knows. Yeah. Doing that. And then at the beginning, I don't enter in that part. I don't want it to create that videos, no, you know, and they say, okay, why? I am happy with the way I'm doing. But at one moment, I have to say that nobody cares about images or post without Reels. 

Raul: And at one moment, it's true. I mean, probably it's about the algorithm, no? Probably is that because video itself is more engaging, that thing. Static images, you know, and everything. And then Instagram started to promote Reels 

Raul: a lot, , after starting with that idea, you know. And then I started to create some, some videos and publish at Reels. Mostly about was the imaging what we are doing, techniques, using trendy music and fuse colorful images, , immunofluorescence of cells, immunochemistries of cells, no? And then, well, people love that kind of content to create videos, no? 

Raul: And then, the last step I think that was, , showing myself in the camera. And then I think that when... Any creator, I think that doesn't matter related to science or whatever, , start to show faces in, in that videos, the people engage more with that. For sure. And then I, the beginning was so afraid and so shy, and then I record myself, like, one by side, no? 

Raul: And then don't, looking at the camera, don't acting, it's just recording my saying, myself doing experiment, real experiment, no? Put the video on record five minutes and then edit a couple of second of that is particular process that I have been doing in the lab, so culturing, you know, fluorescent, whatever. 

Raul: And then I get in with music and then, and then when I started to. Appear, then I get more engagement and at the end, I will not say that it's like addictive, but everybody likes the likes, you know, and then After that, I started to collaborate with another account, this big account with big, big, big engagement And then my account started to grow, , with that people, okay. 

Raul: And then once I switched to both situations, you know, starting to show my face and starting to collaborate with that people, everything goes going up, going up, going up. And I will, I will have to check what, what will be my first video about making a joke. That I, is the unicorn that I really know I'm creating, you know, joke about science research the lab, no? 

Raul: But in any moment, I create a joke, a couple of jokes, maybe any kind of a stupid situation that happened mid last day, you know what I mean? And then, realize that that joke, people loves a lot, that joke. And then, slowly, I go turn into that direction. And actually what is doing, what I am doing is just that part. 

Raul: Because people, is amazing. And the people contact me, enjoy the, the jokes, and joke by, and then contact by message, by comment the post, and people are so funny. Encourage me to do that. And then is just, once you show your face, start to act is like the next step. Is like. At any moment you choose a music and you have to create a script, and you have to create a phrase, and if you create a phrase you have to do something in relation to that phrase. 

Raul: Because if not, it has no sense. You have to be coordinated with the text and with the image. The music doesn't care too much, doesn't matter too much. Has to be a trendy music, funny music, that the people loves, not so strange, and then start to act. And then... I am that old guy, that guy that makes jokes about science, and then in one moment this goes up, up, up, up, and that's it. 

Raul: And then from several months I try to establish collaborations with another creators, and at least one per week post something in collaboration with another creators. That at the end they become friends. It's like I chat with them, message with them, we have problems in the, well, we have problem with the music, we have problem with the edition, we have problem in science, we have problem whatever, and then we enjoy, we make jokes, and we make ideas, and then sometimes you create, or other people create ideas, and say, oh yeah, we can do that, why don't, let's try, and that's it, and then share, post in both channels, and I think that people love that part also. 

Raul: Yeah. 

Raul: It's like you want to win that, that part of the process, and then you have to create an innovating somehow to, to, to improve the engagement of the, of the camera.  

Matt: Yeah. Did you ever think that you would be making scientific humor for such a large audience?  

Raul: Never. Never, never. Never, never. I mean, I think that it's also a generational problem. 

Raul: In fact, I am not from the generation of Instagram. Sure. So imagine to create content directly to post there. I was never ever thought on that. For me, I mean, I don't know even when Instagram Instagram. 

Raul: So I was not doing Instagram from the beginning of the app. I live the beginning of the app, obviously, but I don't create content, neither post nothing about myself or my research at that bring me to 

Raul: Instagram. Probably now people think about that possibility, no? Be a creator and then think about how to be a good creator and engage people and get a Nice content that engage people and get huge number of followings comments, whatever But I think that my generation we found that as you start to do things and then at the moment you get 50, 000 Okay. 

Raul: Followers. Yeah. Why? I don't know. But I am doing that. I know if I continue doing that, I will maybe grow or not. Eventually we don't know. So keep doing that. Yeah.  

Matt: So, what, , what is, what are things that are coming soon? 

Matt: Like, for Raul, either at work, a work project, or research goes slowly, or any of the other things you're, you're into?  

Raul: Okay, for my work, we are really, , now writing a paper. I think it's an amazing part of the work, but just for researchers, I have to say. I mean, it's like, in fact, I... Now I'm writing and designing the figures of the paper, one paper. 

Raul: The idea is to be able to send in of June and try to publish it as soon as possible. Sometimes it's never, you know. , and after that, it's like a close history. And then after that, I have to have an important meeting with my boss and try to direct my work in the lab. Towards the same direction or another direction? 

Raul: Depends on the interest of my boss. You know? Because with that paper we close a part of the research of Kaposi's sarcoma and then it's just to decide if the lab itself wants to follow in that sarcoma on this cancer type or what to move to another one or just... Okay. And for the canal... , don't have too much innovations for the moment. 

Raul: I think that the most innovation for the moment will be established new collaborations with new people. I think that's, I think that is, , I say it to many people, to many creators, many people that complains about Instagram, complains about people, complains about everything, no? Ah. I, I also complain a lot about the Instagram, you know, so it, it's a common task for everybody. 

Raul: It's like, and I think it's like a typical phrase of, of, of informatics is, is everything works, don't change it. So in Novi, in social media, have a risk, has a risk, is that the people will, maybe, will not love what you are trying to do if you change a lot. So any innovation. Has to 

Raul: go very, very, very slowly. Transitions between innovation has to be so smooth. Because if they are so sharp, the people will go out or not. So you have to be sure that you innovate a big changes that the people will love. If not, the better strategy is to try to, , what? Do some innovations during doing your regular things. 

Raul: And try to carefully analyze if these small innovations are loved by the people or not. But 

Raul: by the moment, I don't have any important chance for that kind. I think that I'm happy doing what I'm doing. And I think that the response of the audience is so good. And everything goes fine, to be said. Yeah. , in fact, in fact, if I will make any innovation, will not be related to Istar. Yeah. Will be related to another, implement another social media, maybe, I don't know. 

Raul: TikTok, maybe a podcast, maybe longer videos in YouTube if I will do something, it will be related to that. Yeah. But if YouTube will have a vertical Sure. Screen I will have, try for sure. Just creating like instead of 52nd video, two, three minutes video with a quite long script. Mm-hmm. . But, , with that limitation, it means I'll duplicate the work and it's too much. 

Raul: It's too much for me at that moment. Yeah. That's the point. And TikTok could be, but at the end could be, repeat the same in another, in another platform. It's like, why? You know? I'm happy. And at the end, it starts, like, from zero. People know me from Instagram and people maybe, , if I... Promote my tiktok channel probably will follow at the beginning, but if I know so different content in tiktok, which is the reason to follow in both platforms, nobody will know. 

Raul: And if I do double content, it's too much content to be created at the end. Sure. For me, it's too much. Yeah. I mean, create two, three, four, five things every week. I mean, you have to develop the idea, develop the screen, choose the music, edit. Well, it's not so stressful, but it's hard. It's time. It adds up. You need a lot of time. 

Raul: And I have time for doing that. For sure.  

Matt: For sure. Well, I know folks, , most listeners are probably already following you, but for those who aren't, your Instagram channel is researchgoesslowly. Is there anywhere else online that people should follow along, , to see your journey? I  

Raul: think I didn't catch the question. 

Raul: I'm sorry.  

Matt: Is there like a, do you have like a personal website for your work? Ah, no. Or anything else? No?  

Raul: I don't have anything else. I don't have time. For sure. Yeah. This is the point. The point is that I don't have time. Sometimes I thought that I can create a webpage to promote this merch, to promote videos, to promote any kind of stupid idea I have and sections or maybe writing something about science or my philosophy, whatever I think, you know, related to that or how... 

Raul: Or maybe, I don't know, making workshops to show people how to create jokes, or how to edit videos to be successful in Instagram, you know? I have no time. And this is the point, you know? Many people ask me, and we can collaborate, we can do it, and for many people I always say, okay, give me the idea. If you gave me the idea, I will do it. 

Raul: If not, it's not a win win situation. I mean, it's like I have a lot of things to do. I am doing a lot of things with many people. It's like, if you contact me, I don't know who are you, and then you ask me, we have to collaborate. Give me something. Give me something. Pull me CC, you know? Because if not, what I am doing is okay. 

Raul: A part of this, I collaborate with many people that request things in that way. I am not afraid to test that and check that. And promote that, and promote channels and, and, and put these channels in my histories and save content for other people. I don't be afraid to do that. I don't worry about that. I mean, I think that there are many people doing better than me, probably, in Instagram, you know? 

Raul: But, if something have been created by me, it take my time. It takes my time and I carefully need to check how to handle that. You know, it's... It is not an obsession of timing, but the timing is the unique thing that you can grow. You can grow money working hard, and you can grow recordings, styling all the night in the laugh, and I can record. 

Raul: I, I, I am free to be one night here recording three hours if I want, doesn't care about that. But time is not the time that I have and I have to fix that. Yeah. And doing many things is so problematic. I mean, another issue would be reduce the exposure in Instagram to make content or make other things to another channel. 

Raul: It could be an option, but at the moment I have, I mean, I'm happy with  

Matt: what I'm doing. Yeah. Yeah. No, you're, you're killing it, man. So folks go check out research, go slowly on Instagram if you're not already there. , Raul, last question for you. What do you think all grad students should consider doing before they graduate? 

Matt: Whether it's something serious or something fun.  

Raul: For social media?  

Matt: Oh, just in life, just as a  

Raul: grad student. I always say the same. Many people ask me that. Many people. And I always say that. I say, okay, guy, I am very old. And what I know in life is that you do have to do whatever make you happy. And this is the unique way. 

Raul: This is the unique way, , you can live. I think that you can live with yourself doing a work for eight hours per day in, in which you are unhappy because you spend eight hours sleeping, eight hours unhappy, many hours doing. Things that need to be done, cleaning of the house, renting the car, , managing whatever. 

Raul: And then you have very few time to do whatever you enjoy your life with. And then if you get stressed during eight hours of the work, during that time you will not be able to be happy. And I think that the end of the... The end of the life is to be happy, to be in peace with you, in peace with your friends, with your family. 

Raul: Enjoy with them. And I think it's the important, the unique important. What is difficult? What is really, really, really difficult is decide what makes you happy. And this is the key. And for that, I will say, nobody can help you. Nobody can tell me, Raul, you will be happy, , as Formula One driver, or you will be happy going to the moon an astronaut. 

Raul: No. I have to decide to myself what is making me happy. And when I decide by myself what I'm making happy, whatever is done, I have to try to do that in my life. And then there are people happy creating content, people happy watching TV and not doing nothing else. People have been creating Amazon and create a huge company and creating many problems to solve. 

Raul: And no matter what you make you happy, but do what you're happy. Can you imagine Elon Musk or James Desos or any kind of people in a huge company at the beginning of their company trying to Giving all their lives in that company, if they will not be happy doing that. But what I have to say is that I will not be happy creating Amazon. 

Raul: Maybe during a time, a part of the time of the process of the creation and raising up the company, I will be happy. But after that, it's just managing of a company and I don't love that. I love to go with my family to be to spare to restaurant, and for that what I need this time and a little bit of money and that's it. 

Raul: What made you happy? I do that. I have, oh, if I do my PhD, if I make a postdoc, if I study that. Why do you feel that? Hmm. Do you feel at this time that in the past you were happy? Do you enjoy that subject? If you don't even enjoy that subject, why are you pursuing a PhD in that subject? Has no sense. Maybe you love research itself, and then maybe doesn't care about which kind of research to do. 

Raul: Maybe it's an option also. But if you are doing research in a topic that you don't know, , you have a problem. And at the end, the problem will create a small crisis in you. And you have to decide. I think that more of this 40s, 50s, 30s existential crisis is just because in that point of your life, people realize that they are not happy with what they are doing at that moment. 

Raul: So try to focus on what you are to try to not focus on that. Try to decide when you are young. What do you think that will you make happy? And then do that. No need to be rich. No need to be famous. No need to be win a Nobel Prize. No need to. Nobody, not everybody will love doing that part. So why you? If you don't love that, don't do that. 

Raul: And I think it's the unique part. Serious, joking, richer, poorer, doesn't matter. It's just to, you have to wake up and be happy with your life, and have the strength to wake up without the stress. When you wake up one day and say, woof, another day to the work, but, everybody say that, but, thinking seriously, that is, you, every day of the work, and stressing thinking in the work during your commute and everything, you have a problem. 

Raul: Obviously, nobody wants to work. But we should do that. Many of us should do that. But if you go with stress, do that. For  

Matt: sure. For sure. Wise words from Dr. Raul Pina. From, , Research Goes Slowly. I'll have a link to the Instagram channel in the description of this episode so folks can scroll down and click on that and, , check out your content, of course, if they haven't already. 

Matt: , Raul, thank you so much for coming on the show.  

Raul: Thank you so much to you. Hope the people enjoy that. Hope the people can watch and listen that. Yeah. And hope that my English has to be pro enough clear to everybody. No, yeah, it was great. Loved it. I'm waiting to listen to your edition. Thanks, thanks so much. 

Raul: Thank you so much, Matt.  

Matt: Absolutely. I'll see you next time.  

Raul: See you.